Interesting essay, and I admire your willingness to write it. I will admit that Osama Bin Laden pointed out legitimate problems with the US of Gay, but . . . he did so through a badly distorted lens that misses some important context. I mean, Islam spread through conquest and colonization, giving people of the book (Jews and Christians) a choice: pay a special tax and be allowed to live as second-class citizens subject to massacre at any time and for any reason, convert to Islam, or die. For those not of the book, it was convert or die. And any criticism of the USA or Israel could really very legitimately be made of the Muslim world, but he (and his fellow Muslims) have zero interest in applying their critical lens to themselves.
Bin Laden (as well as the pro-Palestine lobby) is not about Truth or Justice or any of that; he is about *his* team winning by any means necessary, and "winning" for him means obtaining the power to give you the same choice Islamic invaders have given so many others throughout history: convert or die.
I know the history gets a little nuanced when you factor in the years during which the Arab world was still civilized and Western Europe was a backwater (which is why so many of our Greek literature comes by way of the Arabs, because they were the ones preserving it), but the Muslim world today is like what the Christian world would be if the Westboro Baptist Church and Warren Jeff's Fundamentalist Mormon Church were the most prominent denominations.
I hate what the US of Gay has become, but I have zero interest in living in a Caliphate. I also think the USA should pursue its own interests, rather than blindly following Israel's, *and* at the same time, I am not ashamed to say that I would much rather live among Orthodox Jews (note: I said "Orthodox," NOT Reform/atheist) than Muslims -- and that's not even close. Aside from their desire to involve America in Israel's issues, the Orthodox Jews have been as pro-American as any demographic, i.e., in favor of closing the border and restricting immigration, against DEI and all the anti-white racism, opposed to the rainbow agenda, etc. And it's worth noting that the ADL and SPLC routinely target Orthodox Jews for that very reason (e.g., Chaya Raichik).
I do not see Islam as the issue here at all. Islam informed his world view, but that does not make his criticisms of the GAE less worthy of consideration. Nor do I see it as some "clash of civilizations" with the Muslims as the bad guys. A certain ethnic group loves to promote that narrative to distract from their own actions and to manipulate Whtie males into doing their bidding.
I think it is important to consider his words with the last 20 years of GAE history to bear in mind. He saw back then what some are now only beginning to see, and I don't blame him or other Muslims for wanting the GAE out of their lands.
Yeah, you make some good points. If I was an Arab, I would certainly hate America for what the GAE did to my people (in conjunction with client-state elites). I know you're not just criticizing America either; you have a positive vision for what life can be. Many dissidents (especially on the Left) are all critique, though, with no positive vision of any kind. They'll lionize and partner with the Bin Ladens of the world because they hear his critiques and think he (and his fellow jihadis) is a nihilist like them, not realizing he's got his own vision of what he wants the world to look like. Just like they'll happily burn everything down to usher in the Bolshevik revolution, and then be surprised when they get thrown in a gulag once the communists are in power.
No doubt some of the woke commies are projecting their woke crap into Islam, and there's no place for it there. But the GAE itself is to blame for them flirting with Islam because Chrisitanity has become subverted, weak and feminine.
The younger people look at Islam and see a strong, vibrant religion. Thus the gravitate toward it, especially since those who rule the GAE have made it clear that doing is forbidden. The youth always go for what is forbidden.
Who said you had to make a choice? Do you see Muslims invading your country? No, if there is an invasion it's coming from South and Central America. Muslims are still a tiny minority in the GAE.
When I say "our own people" I mean other non hyphenated Australians.
The suburb I grew up in was originally all Australians and European immigrants ( who quickly adapted to Oz) Mass migration of Turks turned it into a muslim area.
My 1st house where we had our children was working class Australian (mostly old people and also young families). This also went full multicultural and not suitable to raise children - Immigrants set up a sweat shop next door as well, so we moved .
I said nothing about living in a Muslim versus non-Muslim society, that is your interpretation of what I wrote. If I wished to write such a post, I would do so. My comments focused exclusively on what Osama wrote in his letter. I did not blithely disregard his point of view simply because he was a Muslim.
Interesting essay, and I admire your willingness to write it. I will admit that Osama Bin Laden pointed out legitimate problems with the US of Gay, but . . . he did so through a badly distorted lens that misses some important context. I mean, Islam spread through conquest and colonization, giving people of the book (Jews and Christians) a choice: pay a special tax and be allowed to live as second-class citizens subject to massacre at any time and for any reason, convert to Islam, or die. For those not of the book, it was convert or die. And any criticism of the USA or Israel could really very legitimately be made of the Muslim world, but he (and his fellow Muslims) have zero interest in applying their critical lens to themselves.
Bin Laden (as well as the pro-Palestine lobby) is not about Truth or Justice or any of that; he is about *his* team winning by any means necessary, and "winning" for him means obtaining the power to give you the same choice Islamic invaders have given so many others throughout history: convert or die.
I know the history gets a little nuanced when you factor in the years during which the Arab world was still civilized and Western Europe was a backwater (which is why so many of our Greek literature comes by way of the Arabs, because they were the ones preserving it), but the Muslim world today is like what the Christian world would be if the Westboro Baptist Church and Warren Jeff's Fundamentalist Mormon Church were the most prominent denominations.
I hate what the US of Gay has become, but I have zero interest in living in a Caliphate. I also think the USA should pursue its own interests, rather than blindly following Israel's, *and* at the same time, I am not ashamed to say that I would much rather live among Orthodox Jews (note: I said "Orthodox," NOT Reform/atheist) than Muslims -- and that's not even close. Aside from their desire to involve America in Israel's issues, the Orthodox Jews have been as pro-American as any demographic, i.e., in favor of closing the border and restricting immigration, against DEI and all the anti-white racism, opposed to the rainbow agenda, etc. And it's worth noting that the ADL and SPLC routinely target Orthodox Jews for that very reason (e.g., Chaya Raichik).
I do not see Islam as the issue here at all. Islam informed his world view, but that does not make his criticisms of the GAE less worthy of consideration. Nor do I see it as some "clash of civilizations" with the Muslims as the bad guys. A certain ethnic group loves to promote that narrative to distract from their own actions and to manipulate Whtie males into doing their bidding.
I think it is important to consider his words with the last 20 years of GAE history to bear in mind. He saw back then what some are now only beginning to see, and I don't blame him or other Muslims for wanting the GAE out of their lands.
Yeah, you make some good points. If I was an Arab, I would certainly hate America for what the GAE did to my people (in conjunction with client-state elites). I know you're not just criticizing America either; you have a positive vision for what life can be. Many dissidents (especially on the Left) are all critique, though, with no positive vision of any kind. They'll lionize and partner with the Bin Ladens of the world because they hear his critiques and think he (and his fellow jihadis) is a nihilist like them, not realizing he's got his own vision of what he wants the world to look like. Just like they'll happily burn everything down to usher in the Bolshevik revolution, and then be surprised when they get thrown in a gulag once the communists are in power.
No doubt some of the woke commies are projecting their woke crap into Islam, and there's no place for it there. But the GAE itself is to blame for them flirting with Islam because Chrisitanity has become subverted, weak and feminine.
The younger people look at Islam and see a strong, vibrant religion. Thus the gravitate toward it, especially since those who rule the GAE have made it clear that doing is forbidden. The youth always go for what is forbidden.
Also true. Case in point, Andrew Tate.
I’d rather live among our own people
Who said you had to make a choice? Do you see Muslims invading your country? No, if there is an invasion it's coming from South and Central America. Muslims are still a tiny minority in the GAE.
When I say "our own people" I mean other non hyphenated Australians.
The suburb I grew up in was originally all Australians and European immigrants ( who quickly adapted to Oz) Mass migration of Turks turned it into a muslim area.
My 1st house where we had our children was working class Australian (mostly old people and also young families). This also went full multicultural and not suitable to raise children - Immigrants set up a sweat shop next door as well, so we moved .
Oh, my apologies. I did not realize you were an aussie.
No worries mate (a bit of Aussie lingo for you ) good on ya
But you do agree with Osama that Wahhabism is vastly superior to any western religion/ideology , sounds like you do.
🙄
So you are working on migrating to Saudi then? You prefer tp live in a Islamic country rather than the West? If you do not then you are full of BS.
I said nothing about living in a Muslim versus non-Muslim society, that is your interpretation of what I wrote. If I wished to write such a post, I would do so. My comments focused exclusively on what Osama wrote in his letter. I did not blithely disregard his point of view simply because he was a Muslim.